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May 03, 2025

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cory

Definitely catch the two-part history podcast The Rest Is History on The Rolling Stones

Paul Horwitz

Obviously, the French language adaptation, “Marie douceur,” by Marie Colere,” demands immediate mention.

https://youtu.be/lecr1EnZMQo?si=8iej6U9mgozv6wuT

Paul Horwitz

Sorry, “Marie douceur, Marie colere,” by Marie Laforet.” A lot of Maries to keep track of.

Also

Elmo Lewis

Great song. It has the best opening sitar hook in the history of rock 'n roll.

Brian Jones was the most musically gifted of the Stones. He could master different instruments with ease, as witnessed by his sitar playing on Paint It, Black.

The song is not on the Stones' Aftermath release because in the UK it was the custom not to include singles' releases on albums.

anon

Giving the lie to the promo claim that the Beatles were the first to record using a sitar.

www[dot]youtube[dot]com/watch?v=n1h7rCwbsuY

a

Retry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1h7rCwbsuY

anon

BTW, the opening in PIB is guitar, not sitar.
The sitar comes in with just a strum: hardly original or difficult to play.
Brian wasn't the most talented musician in the Stones by any stretch.
He really couldn't write very well; it is said that perhaps he wrote two obscure songs. To be sure, he contributed some to other songs, like Ruby Tuesday, but he wasn't a songwriter and, had he been the lead songwriter for the Stones, no one would be talking about them now.
He really didn't play very well either. Take a look at videos of their early performances, like the TAMI concert or the Rock and Roll Circus. He could barely play the rhythm guitar part.
What is the point of making these absurd claims on a law blawg? ("Brian Jones was the most musically gifted of the Stones.")
On a website that is supposedly reflective of scholarship of the law community, this sort of "teen magazine" stuff is emblematic and of a piece with the rest (as little as there may be) of what purports to be "scholarship."

Elmo Lewis

The statement that Brian was the musically most talented of the Stones is not absurd.
Let me clarify: Until success wrecked Brian his multi-instrumentalist versatility was featured on many of the Stones’ early tunes. Some examples: the harmonica work on the early Stones R&B songs; the sitar on Paint It, Black, (which is much more than a strum); listen to the isolated sitar track here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcP7OCHfGLw (Note: I wrongly assumed that the opening riff was the sitar.) That’s also Brian on bass pedals on Black; the marimba on Under My Thumb and Out of Time (as well as vibraphone); Appalachian dulcimer on Lady Jane; mellotron on 2000 light Years from Home.

It’s true he wasn’t much of a song writer so Jagger-Richards got the song writing credits (which was where the real money was).
The Stones did not record songs the way most groups did. Jagger or Richards would come to the recording lyrics and melody but the Stones would spend weeks, sometimes months perfecting melody, tempo and instrumentation. Bill Wyman repeatedly refers to how much Brian contributed to the early Stones songs.The final cut usually sounded nothing like the original melody. You can see some of this process in Jean-Luc Goddard’s film (2+2) Sympathy for the Devil. You can also see how out of it Brian is by that time.

Brian had his flaws and they were serious. He was a violent misogynist. Charlie ways said he was “not very nice.” He was likely someone who would start something but not follow through to completion.

I did not detect his trouble with rhythm guitar during the TAMI show. By the R&R Circus production he was already too far gone. The Stones set was one of their worst on record. I read somewhere that they had all been up for several days on end before the set.

anon

Elmo
You mention some decent playing on some recorded songs, which, as you say, were sometimes the product of months in the studio. IMHO, you are repeating fan magazine talk.
Most gifted musician of the Stones?
Please.
I think you've conceded that isn't true.
Brian put an ad in a music mag to start a "R&B" type group. He claimed to be a "guitarist AND vocalist." He wasn't the latter and barely competent on rhythm guitar. Watch his playing at TAMI: simple chords with his amp way down in the mix. It was all Keith. Playing of Brian's caliber could be found in a thousand bars at the time and still can be.
He was a mediocre (i.e., average or a bit worse) professional musician in every sense, who got lucky with his: a.) hair and looks, and b.) response to his ad.

anon

Btw, at least "elmo" is willing and able to debate a topic, albeit an inconsequential and trivial topic. This is unlike the cowards who post solely for their own self-promotion, occasionally state "comments welcome" and then close comments upon even MILD push back.
It is clear that the fragile egos of the core FL posters have basically destroyed it.

Elmo Lewis

Re Brian Jones we'll have to agree to disagree.

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