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July 12, 2020

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anon

We all remember this Senate report, of course:

https://
www
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hsgac.senate
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gov/imo/media/doc/Majority%20&%20Minority%20Staff%20Report%20-%20Protecting%20Unaccompanied%20Alien%20Children%20from%20Trafficking%20and%20Other%20Abuses%202016-01-282.pdf

Should we take into consideration the fact that the circumstances therein described did not disappear in 2016: instead, did these abuses of children escalate?

Shouldn't we address wrongful acts against children by ALL those who would exploit the innocent and dependent?

Turing Test

where were you when Obama's people were doing the same thing?

anon

TT

REad that Senate report above.

Anonymous Bosch

Thanks for the fake news, Ediberto!

Ediberto Roman

The pre-Trump family-related detentions were rare, and nowhere near the systematic the Zero Tolerance approach. You folks are simply wrong. Next time, instead of classic xenophobic responses or foolish "fake news" shouts, do the research! I particularly loved the classic "fake News" moniker--says so much about you. If you are an academic, open invite to debate you!!!!!

Here are a cross sections of articles for the deluded Trump defenders. I can find you many more sources---but your retort will likely not be based on facts but the classic "Fake News" refrain. LOL!

https://www.statesman.com/news/20190625/fact-check-did-obama-have-family-separation-policy-before-trump

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/us/politics/fact-check-trump-family-separation.html

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/ (“Previous administrations used family detention facilities, allowing the whole family to stay together while awaiting their deportation case in immigration court, or alternatives to detention, which required families to be tracked but released from custody to await their court date”)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44303556

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/23/trump-falsely-says-obama-started-family-separation/1540733001/ (" Migrant apprehensions and deportations during Obama's presidency outpaced those of Trump's first years according to Department of Homeland Security data and a report published Friday by Axios. But PolitiFact found that family separations were rare during the Obama and Bush administrations and became "systematic" under Trump's zero-tolerance policy._).

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/09/711446917/fact-check-trump-wrongly-states-obama-administration-had-child-separation-policy

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jun/21/donald-trump/donald-trump-again-falsely-says-obama-had-family-s/

Ediberto Roman

My last comment on the matter: I hope you folks realize the Senate Report cited above addresses the treatment of unaccompanied minors, and nt family separations. While that report is related to the issue concerning of children, it does not address the family separation issue. Nonetheless, because it is more relevant to the issue I wrote about, I appreciate the citations by Anon. Unlike blanket and actually sad claims of "Fake News," at least the Senate report is an issue that can be discussed, debated, and distinguished. Those that deny Family Separation, or like Trump, falsely claim it was Obama's policy are simply misguided, and do not care about the facts. Again, the Senate report cited above addresses how to address unaccompanied minors at the border, and not the policy of taking children from their parents at the border.

anon

Ediberto

Thank you for not just dismissing the Senate Report as "classic xenophobic responses or foolish "fake news" shouts."

You distinguish the horrible circumstances described in the report (e.g., placing unaccompanied minors with traffickers, who did all sorts of unspeakable things to them and to their families), because the children described in the Senate Report were "unaccompanied minors" and not children who entered with their parents.

Please note the Report stated that, in 2014, "The causes of the surge of UACs are disputed, but all stakeholders, including HHS, agree that one reason UACs come to this country is that they are “brought into the United States by human trafficking rings.”

"Over a period of four months in 2014, however, HHS placed a number of UACs in the hands of a ring of human traffickers who forced them to work on egg farms in and around Marion, Ohio, leading to a July 2015 federal criminal
indictment. According to the indictment, the minor victims were forced to work at egg farms in Marion and other location for six or seven days a week, twelve hours per day. The traffickers repeatedly threatened the victims and their families with physical harm, and even death, if they did not work or surrender their entire paychecks."

Note the reference to families.

Flash forward to the influx you describe. If a person accompanying a minor claims to be a parent, but is not, what should be the outcome? Should that person, perhaps a trafficker, be separated from the child?

Then, we come to the true situation of the parent and child who entered illegally. Because the child could not be detained, then the parent could not be as well without separation. So, if the attempt was made to detain the parent and release the child, was this the abominable act to which you refer?

I would simply ask you to respond to this:

Between 5 and 10 percent of women enter prison and jail pregnant, and approximately 2,000 babies are born to incarcerated women annually.

What should become of those babies? Should their mothers be released? Or detained in other circumstances? Or, should the babies be "separated" and placed, if no other family member is available? Ideally, I think we would all choose humane treatment of both mothers and babies.

The fact is that mothers are arrested and detained and imprisoned who have minor children for whom there is no other caregiver. Is each instance of placement in these circumstances an abominable act?

I'm not defending the zero tolerance policy. I'm not saying that the illegally crossing the border is an illegal act that should be treated identically to all criminal acts.

But, I think you should consider the broader issues, and not be so strident and hyperbolic. Or at least find fault where fault is due without regard to your obvious political bias.

Will you speak out about prior abuses of humans in the same way?

Anonymous Bosch

God, I would love that debate. Would you like to commence by citing actual primary sources and (peer-reviewed) academic sources, or is your MO to just cite to news sources - including "factcheck.org"?

Anonymous Bosch

Second, you can try to even begin to justify why the responses are per se "xenophobic," let alone "classic" ones, rather than just base slander on your part (not even rising to the level of an ad hominem, since you present no argument).

What are our ethnicities?

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