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July 15, 2020

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Anon

He's an idiot.

Anon

Typical for a blowhard to not only say what he is doing, but to insist that everyone else do the same. If you feel "obligated," go ahead. But leave my obligations to myself.

John Wladis

I read his op ed. I thought it was well done. There's been plenty of commentary on the web about why profs should not teach in person and this was presented as one man's explanation of why he had decided to teach in person. Nothing more & nothing less. He clearly stated that he was not arguing that all faculty had an obligation to teach in person.


We have lost the ability to disagree without being disagreeable.

Enrique Guerra-Pujol

Self-serving bias, anyone? It is far more work to teach online than to teach face to face.

Doug Richmond

Shouldn't any faculty member who is leaving his or her home now to shop or dine be willing to teach in-person in the fall? If you are willing to go to the grocery store masked or to a restaurant (wearing a mask until your food or drink arrives), shouldn't you be willing to teach in-person wearing a mask in the fall? Now, maybe it is impossible to teach effectively wearing a mask (or at least a faculty member reasonably believes so), in which case teaching online is a better option. Maybe a faculty member does not leave home now--he or she is still sheltering in place for any number of valid reasons--in which case teaching remotely is consistent with that person's view of safe practices generally. But it seems to me that you can't have it both ways--if you're going out now, you should be in front of a classroom in the fall.

Steve L.

Sorry about the delay, Doug. Your comment was caught in the spam folder.

Note that Doug takes responsibility for his position, without waffling: "If you're going out now, you should be in front of a classroom in the fall." That is far more respectable, in my view, that Hasnas, who spent eight paragraphs declaring obligations, only to say at the end that he didn't really mean it that way.

Anon

If you can't see the difference between running out to the grocery store and spending eight hours in a building, then I don't know what to tell you.

Doug Richmond

There is no material difference between going to the store or dining out and "spending eight hours in a building" in this context. After teaching a class--where you are exposed to no more people than you will be in a grocery store and in all likelihood a healthier population than you will encounter in a grocery store--you can retreat to your office (and conduct office hours remotely if need be). If you are fortunate to have a teaching schedule that does not require you to be in the building every day, you can work from home on the days you are not teaching. And if you only teach one class per day, or teach only in the mornings or afternoons, you can stay home except when you are teaching. I am not saying that faculty members do not have legitimate health concerns, whether personal to them or occasioned by family members' health issues. They surely do. But, as I pointed out in the original post, you cannot credibly go out in your personal life and stay home in your professional one

Anon

Doug:

Sure, Jan . . .

anon

"There is no material difference between going to the store or dining out and "spending eight hours in a building" in this context."

Dr. Richmond, with all due respect, you don't seem to be correct. (And, please don't attack me as a "coward" for daring to say this anonymously, when you are in a dialogue with 'Anon'.")

First, why do you think stores in many areas limit the number of people in the store?

Second, dining-in is still prohibited in many places, even when shopping in grocery stores isn't. There is "material difference" between the two. Or, are all the health officers in these communities wrong?

THird, the science seems to be saying that "close contact" is defined as being within six feet of an infected person for 15 minutes.

Thus, casual contact with a store clerk for 30 sec. isn't likely to result in transmission. (Masks are irrelevant: most are like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence.)

Truly, are you claiming that a three hour class session with 100 students, in an air conditioned lecture hall, is no different from casual, brief contact with store employees in a grocery? Or, is a smaller class, in a smaller room, the same thing because you will be "exposed to no more people than you will be in a grocery store"?

Are you really claiming that science supports this view?

Finally, you seem to be claiming that you know more about these matters than all the folks at major universities that will remain in distance mode this Fall. These universities stand to lose funds, but nevertheless are remaining in distance mode for the Fall.

Should they, Dr. Richmond, be adhering to your professional opinion? If so, "then I don't know what to tell you." They won't. Nor should they.

Doug Richmond

anon, I think all sorts of people are taking all sorts of precautionary measures for all sorts of reasons. The CDC says masks work. Every state government except Georgia's thinks that masks work. As Robert Redfield, Director of the CDC said earlier this week, “If we could get everybody to wear a mask right now, I really think in the next four, six, eight weeks, we could bring this epidemic under control.” So when you write, "Masks are irrelevant: most are like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence," are you "claiming that you know more about these matters" than Dr. Redfield? Is this "health officer" wrong? Look, if you're concerned that your health is at risk if you teach classes in-person in the fall (though I doubt from the tenor of your posts that you're a law professor), then teach remotely if you can. But you can't go about your daily life outside your house now and not teach in-person in the fall. Social distancing? Unless you're teaching in a seminar room, you can stay at least six feet away from all your students.

Ediberto Roman

Great post, Steve. I could not agree with you more. Well done!!!

Anon

Doug, you didn't respond to the question about the difference between brief contact in a grocery store and the prolonged exposure to students indoors for an hour to two hour class. That you keep repeating there is no difference does not make you any less wrong.

AnonProf

Hopefully he's realized how ridiculous that statement was.

anon

Doug Richmond

Always the personal attack: "though I doubt from the tenor of your posts that you're a law professor." Ahhh, so you are the model of the professional tone of the law professor? Good to know. Almost always wrong, it seems.

You predictably avoided almost the entirety of the comment that your statement, as follows, was demonstrably false:

"There is no material difference between going to the store or dining out and "spending eight hours in a building" in this context."

No, Dr. Richmmond, there is a material difference between these three activities, and universities all over the country recognize this difference. And, you can't deny it or prove otherwise by citation to any "science." You are just bloviating about what other people should do.

As for my comment about masks, once again, predictably, you aren't informed. If you read the material published by CDC, WHO, JAMA and others, PRE pandemic, about the efficacy of masks, you wouldn't rely solely on recent statements to argue masks are irrefutably effective: in either direction, btw.

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