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November 29, 2016


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The Yale results are not an anomaly but a function the double digit percentage of graduates who clerk...I would have thought you knew that.



Unfair snark. Dan pointed out: "Yale is #20, but that probably has more to do with the choices that students made rather than the options they encountered."

Dan Filler

The ABA treats judicial clerkships as LTFT JD required. Among Yale's 213 graduates, 11 were in school-funded positions and 7 more were pursuing graduate degrees. I don't assume that any of these folks were necessarily unable to get LTFT work of some sort - thus the "options" language.

Captain Hruska Carswell, Continuance King

Stop arguing already. All of these legal jobs are moot on January 20th. President Elect Trump Tweeted tonight that his first act as Leader will be to kill all the lawyers.


Do these data include or exclude school-funded jobs?


Data should exclude school-funded, but as far as I can tell do not.


The value of the data as presented is questionable. One number that jumps out is Seton Hall's ranking as #12. This reflects the huge percentage of graduates who spend their first year as a clerk to local judges in NJ. There are so many "clerks" that this is of little help in finding a quality permanent position. I believe that LST excludes state clerkships in their data presentation, even though a state Supreme Court clerkship would usually be highly beneficial for a new graduate.

Charles Sullivan

It's true that Seton Hall has a large number of students taking clerkship positions. It's also true that our survey of students coming out of clerkships (for the class of 2014, which means the survey was conducted in 2015) showed an employment of 96.72%. These results are basically due to successful efforts to reduce class sizes to match available employment opportunities for our graduates.

Charles A. Sullivan


For the school noted (South Texas), there is no discrepancy between their form and the numbers in the ABA database. Both check out to 218 FTLT BPR and JDA jobs (206+12), and all of the "above the line" (i.e. the top box on the form) numbers match between the form and the database. Their form on their own ABA required disclosures web page also matches the information on the form and database on the ABA employment outcomes web page. So, not sure what happened there with the analysis...

If there ever is a discrepancy, though, the data on the individual school "form" is the more accurate, as that data generates automatically and instantly from the individual school entries on the EQ sub-page of their AQ page, so it would reflect any changes or updates (which are required to be made, as new/different information is discovered, pursuant to the ABA Protocol), whereas the full spreadsheet containing data for all schools combined is only periodically updated.


I've done a similar ranking-type exercise using NALP and LST data.

I did some job-weighing to try and account for how different jobs are more prestigious/sought-after and to mitigate some absurd results (like Kentucky above Yale), though some still exist (like Seton Hall above Georgetown).

I also attempted to use salary data to suggest a cost of attendance, which should smooth out some other wrinkles (e.g., Baylor is ranked above USC, but that doesn't mean spending $200K at Baylor is a better option than spending $200K at USC).

It's just a quick little analysis I did and there are probably some methodology flaws, but I think it makes sense.

John Steele

Thomas Jefferson is No. 1 in debt load (172k) and No. 200 (of 203) in job placement rates. How has the ABA or some regulator not shut down the school yet? It makes Trump University look like a wise investment.


John Steele

Golden Gate (add: take a look at its bar pass rates) is a contender for that coveted prize for the worst of the worst on the bottom rung.

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