I've taken the same data that Gary Rosin used in this post (which ranked schools by percentage employed in full-time, long-term jobs requiring a JD) and cleaned the list...by excluding all such positions that were funded by the law school.
One concern I have about Gary's list - similar to concerns about US News rankings - is that once you eliminate the top schools, an ordinal ranking suggests large distinctions between schools with small acutal differences. Thus, the gap in Gary's list from the #1 school (Penn) to the #31 school (Georgia) is 25 percentage points; Penn placed 94.4% of its students and Georgia placed 69.4%. But the gap between Georgia and the school 30 places down the list - #61 FIU (which placed 63.6 of its students) - was only 5.8 percentage points. A law school candidate might be agnostic as between Georgia and FIU, based on placement, but not between Penn and Georgia.
I am going to publish my list from number 1 to 197, but a savvy reader would be well advised to consider schools in clusters. For example, this time using my list, schools 1 to 6 place over 85% of their grads in legit L/T, F/T JD required jobs. Call that cluster 1. Schools 7-19 place over 75%. Schools 20-52 place over 65%. Schools 53-98 place over 55%. And so on.
Even this clustering obscures important facts for anyone comparing law schools, the primary one of which is this: outside of a few elite schools, most grads with jobs are working somewhere geographically close to their law school. So a graduate of #34 Campbell University has a comparatively good shot at a job; it's probably going to be in North Carolina. Ditto #28 South Texas College of Law. And if your goal is Big Law, particularly in $160K-ville, you'd best take that #17 Northwestern offer (even if you did get into #16 LSU or #15 West Virginia.) I do love Alabama - after all, it was my first academic home - but if I had an offer from #14 Yale and #13 Alabama...well, you know where this is going.
And a close reader might consider whether a particular school claims a very high number of graduates going into solo practice. While solos are treated the same as associates at Wilmer Hale, for statitstical purpose, the average solo is probably going to earn less during her first few years than she would have made in a non-JD job. You can go here and and sort through all sorts of these issues.
Are there any notable distinctions between my list and Gary's? That is, did some schools hire a big chunk of their grads in long-term, full-time JD required positions? A few. Virginia falls from #2 to #11 - or almost 15 percentage points. A bunch of schools - Chicago, NYU, Columbia, and others - showed distinctly weaker placement numbers, though they remained quite strong, comparatively. And then there was George Washington which fell from 14 to 76 or from 81% employed to 60.35%. This is an admirable form of back-end financial aid for unemployed grads, and phenomenally expensive, but it does confound the rankings a bit.
My chart is after the jump. If you want to compare Gary's ranking which includes law school funded jobs, it's here.
|
Class of 2012 ABA Employment Report |
|
|
JD Required, FT, LT Minus Law School Funded |
|
Rank |
School Name |
Rate |
1 |
PENNSYLVANIA, UNIVERSITY OF |
91.85% |
2 |
STANFORD UNIVERSITY |
88.95% |
3 |
CHICAGO, UNIVERSITY OF |
86.98% |
4 |
CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF |
85.90% |
5 |
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY |
85.29% |
6 |
CORNELL UNIVERSITY |
85.26% |
7 |
DUKE UNIVERSITY |
84.89% |
8 |
HARVARD UNIVERSITY |
84.58% |
9 |
CALIFORNIA-IRVINE, UNIVERSITY OF |
83.93% |
10 |
MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF |
81.70% |
11 |
VIRGINIA, UNIVERSITY OF |
79.67% |
12 |
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY |
79.05% |
13 |
ALABAMA, UNIVERSITY OF |
77.33% |
14 |
YALE UNIVERSITY |
77.03% |
15 |
WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY |
76.76% |
16 |
LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY |
76.68% |
17 |
NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY |
75.93% |
18 |
TEXAS AT AUSTIN, UNIVERSITY OF |
75.34% |
19 |
SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY |
75.09% |
20 |
KENTUCKY, UNIVERSITY OF |
74.15% |
21 |
MERCER UNIVERSITY |
72.54% |
22 |
VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY |
71.43% |
23 |
SOUTH TEXAS COLLEGE OF LAW |
71.35% |
23 |
IOWA, UNIVERSITY OF |
71.35% |
25 |
ARKANSAS, FAYETTEVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF |
70.45% |
26 |
SOUTH CAROLINA, UNIVERSITY OF |
70.35% |
27 |
CALIFORNIA-LOS ANGELES, UNIVERSITY OF |
69.97% |
28 |
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, UNIVERSITY OF |
69.68% |
29 |
GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF |
69.43% |
30 |
MISSOURI-COLUMBIA, UNIVERSITY OF |
68.03% |
31 |
WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF |
67.96% |
32 |
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY |
67.95% |
33 |
NORTH DAKOTA, UNIVERSITY OF |
67.78% |
34 |
CAMPBELL UNIVERSITY |
67.59% |
35 |
NORTH CAROLINA, UNIVERSITY OF |
67.58% |
36 |
NEW MEXICO, UNIVERSITY OF |
67.23% |
37 |
BAYLOR UNIVERSITY |
67.07% |
38 |
WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY |
67.00% |
39 |
LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF |
66.93% |
40 |
EMORY UNIVERSITY |
66.92% |
41 |
ST. MARY'S UNIVERSITY |
66.79% |
42 |
GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY |
66.77% |
43 |
OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF |
66.49% |
44 |
ARIZONA, UNIVERSITY OF |
66.44% |
45 |
FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY |
66.43% |
46 |
MISSOURI-KANSAS CITY, UNIVERSITY OF |
66.01% |
47 |
GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY |
65.83% |
48 |
SETON HALL UNIVERSITY |
65.81% |
49 |
NEBRASKA, UNIVERSITY OF |
65.63% |
50 |
BOSTON COLLEGE |
65.38% |
51 |
NOTRE DAME, UNIVERSITY OF |
65.31% |
52 |
TENNESSEE, UNIVERSITY OF |
65.16% |
53 |
MINNESOTA, UNIVERSITY OF |
64.35% |
54 |
TULSA, UNIVERSITY OF |
64.18% |
55 |
BOSTON UNIVERSITY |
64.10% |
56 |
WASHBURN UNIVERSITY |
63.46% |
57 |
UTAH, UNIVERSITY OF |
63.43% |
58 |
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY |
63.27% |
59 |
ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY |
63.21% |
60 |
SOUTH DAKOTA, UNIVERSITY OF |
63.16% |
61 |
HOUSTON, UNIVERSITY OF |
62.98% |
62 |
RUTGERS UNIVERSITY-CAMDEN |
62.96% |
63 |
NORTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY |
62.64% |
64 |
FORDHAM UNIVERSITY |
62.55% |
65 |
TULANE UNIVERSITY |
62.45% |
66 |
WISCONSIN, UNIVERSITY OF |
61.97% |
67 |
FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL |
61.96% |
68 |
TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY |
61.40% |
69 |
KANSAS, UNIVERSITY OF |
61.04% |
70 |
MONTANA, UNIVERSITY OF |
60.98% |
71 |
CALIFORNIA-DAVIS, UNIVERSITY OF |
60.89% |
72 |
ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY |
60.87% |
72 |
NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY OF |
60.87% |
72 |
UNIVERSITY OF NEVADA - LAS VEGAS |
60.87% |
75 |
ARKANSAS, LITTLE ROCK, UNIVERSITY OF |
60.43% |
76 |
GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY |
60.35% |
77 |
MISSISSIPPI COLLEGE |
59.76% |
78 |
SAMFORD UNIVERSITY |
59.64% |
79 |
STETSON UNIVERSITY |
59.53% |
80 |
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY |
59.46% |
81 |
MISSISSIPPI, UNIVERSITY OF |
59.39% |
82 |
OHIO NORTHERN UNIVERSITY |
59.38% |
83 |
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY |
59.22% |
84 |
MIAMI, UNIVERSITY OF |
58.79% |
85 |
PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY |
58.25% |
86 |
ILLINOIS, UNIVERSITY OF |
58.22% |
87 |
CREIGHTON UNIVERSITY |
57.58% |
88 |
MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY |
57.34% |
89 |
NOVA SOUTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY |
57.06% |
90 |
RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF |
56.76% |
90 |
FLORIDA, UNIVERSITY OF |
56.76% |
92 |
IDAHO, UNIVERSITY OF |
56.73% |
93 |
MEMPHIS, UNIVERSITY OF |
56.72% |
94 |
WILLIAM AND MARY SCHOOL OF LAW |
56.37% |
95 |
DRAKE UNIVERSITY |
56.12% |
96 |
WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF |
56.00% |
97 |
LEWIS AND CLARK COLLEGE |
55.98% |
98 |
TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY |
55.61% |
99 |
WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY |
54.76% |
100 |
LOYOLA UNIVERSITY-CHICAGO |
54.61% |
101 |
INDIANA UNIVERSITY MAURER SCHOOL OF LAW |
54.41% |
102 |
RUTGERS UNIVERSITY-NEWARK |
54.32% |
103 |
CONNECTICUT, UNIVERSITY OF |
54.27% |
104 |
YESHIVA UNIVERSITY |
54.01% |
105 |
CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK |
53.90% |
106 |
CHARLESTON SCHOOL OF LAW |
53.71% |
107 |
OKLAHOMA CITY UNIVERSITY |
53.62% |
108 |
CINCINNATI, UNIVERSITY OF |
53.57% |
109 |
TEXAS WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY |
53.14% |
110 |
TEMPLE UNIVERSITY |
53.07% |
111 |
BALTIMORE, UNIVERSITY OF |
53.03% |
112 |
MARYLAND, UNIVERSITY OF |
52.98% |
113 |
HAWAII, UNIVERSITY OF |
52.83% |
114 |
DUQUESNE UNIVERSITY |
52.74% |
115 |
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY-CARBONDALE |
52.34% |
116 |
STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT BUFFALO |
52.15% |
117 |
WILLAMETTE UNIVERSITY |
52.00% |
118 |
TOLEDO, UNIVERSITY OF |
51.70% |
119 |
ALBANY LAW SCHOOL |
51.50% |
120 |
WILLIAM MITCHELL COLLEGE OF LAW |
51.49% |
121 |
COLORADO, UNIVERSITY OF |
51.43% |
122 |
ROGER WILLIAMS UNIVERSITY |
51.38% |
123 |
PITTSBURGH, UNIVERSITY OF |
51.35% |
124 |
HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY |
51.24% |
125 |
REGENT UNIVERSITY |
51.18% |
126 |
VILLANOVA UNIVERSITY |
51.17% |
127 |
DAYTON, UNIVERSITY OF |
51.15% |
128 |
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY |
51.11% |
129 |
ELON UNIVERSITY |
50.89% |
130 |
INDIANA UNIVERSITY - INDIANAPOLIS |
50.85% |
131 |
TOURO COLLEGE |
50.82% |
132 |
GONZAGA UNIVERSITY |
50.60% |
133 |
FAULKNER UNIVERSITY |
50.00% |
134 |
GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY |
49.55% |
135 |
WASHINGTON AND LEE UNIVERSITY |
49.23% |
136 |
DENVER, UNIVERSITY OF |
49.21% |
137 |
ST. JOHN'S UNIVERSITY |
49.11% |
138 |
CLEVELAND STATE UNIVERSITY |
48.86% |
139 |
BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL |
48.71% |
140 |
LOYOLA UNIVERSITY-NEW ORLEANS |
48.56% |
141 |
BARRY UNIVERSITY |
48.50% |
142 |
DREXEL UNIVERSITY |
48.39% |
143 |
CAPITAL UNIVERSITY |
48.22% |
144 |
HOWARD UNIVERSITY |
47.68% |
145 |
SAN DIEGO, UNIVERSITY OF |
47.09% |
146 |
SEATTLE UNIVERSITY |
47.06% |
147 |
AKRON, UNIVERSITY OF |
46.76% |
148 |
WIDENER UNIVERSITY-HARRISBURG |
46.72% |
149 |
PACE UNIVERSITY |
46.52% |
150 |
CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY |
46.51% |
151 |
PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY |
46.48% |
152 |
CALIFORNIA-HASTINGS, UNIVERSITY OF |
46.28% |
153 |
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY |
45.95% |
154 |
VERMONT LAW SCHOOL |
45.15% |
155 |
UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS |
44.10% |
156 |
NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY |
43.83% |
156 |
SOUTHWESTERN LAW SCHOOL |
43.83% |
158 |
CALIFORNIA WESTERN SCHOOL OF LAW |
43.82% |
159 |
PHOENIX SCHOOL OF LAW |
43.65% |
160 |
ATLANTA'S JOHN MARSHALL LAW SHOOL |
43.50% |
161 |
NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY |
43.26% |
162 |
SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY |
43.21% |
163 |
HAMLINE UNIVERSITY |
42.63% |
164 |
SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY |
42.62% |
165 |
MAINE, UNIVERSITY OF |
42.53% |
166 |
JOHN MARSHALL LAW SCHOOL |
42.03% |
167 |
VALPARAISO UNIVERSITY |
41.86% |
168 |
OREGON, UNIVERSITY OF |
41.61% |
169 |
MCGEORGE SCHOOL OF LAW |
41.50% |
170 |
QUINNIPIAC UNIVERSITY |
41.06% |
171 |
MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY |
40.89% |
172 |
LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY-LOS ANGELES |
40.88% |
173 |
DEPAUL UNIVERSITY |
40.49% |
174 |
ST. THOMAS UNIVERSITY |
40.28% |
175 |
SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY |
39.85% |
176 |
NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL |
39.60% |
177 |
WIDENER UNIVERSITY |
38.66% |
178 |
APPALACHIAN SCHOOL OF LAW |
38.46% |
179 |
AMERICAN UNIVERSITY |
38.44% |
180 |
FLORIDA A&M |
38.13% |
181 |
CHARLOTTE SCHOOL OF LAW |
37.61% |
182 |
CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY |
36.52% |
183 |
NEW ENGLAND LAW | BOSTON |
36.28% |
184 |
CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA |
36.18% |
185 |
FLORIDA COASTAL |
35.88% |
186 |
UNIVERSITY OF LA VERNE |
35.58% |
187 |
AVE MARIA |
35.54% |
188 |
WHITTIER COLLEGE |
34.12% |
189 |
WESTERN NEW ENGLAND UNIVERSITY |
33.75% |
190 |
WESTERN STATE |
32.53% |
191 |
DETROIT MERCY, UNIVERSITY OF |
29.72% |
192 |
THOMAS JEFFERSON SCHOOL OF LAW |
28.85% |
193 |
THOMAS M. COOLEY LAW SCHOOL |
28.82% |
194 |
NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY |
26.06% |
195 |
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA |
25.81% |
196 |
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS DARTMOUTH |
22.73% |
197 |
SAN FRANCISCO, UNIVERSITY OF |
22.62% |
198 |
GOLDEN GATE UNIVERSITY |
21.51% |
199 |
PUERTO RICO, UNIVERSITY OF |
13.86% |
200 |
PONTIFICAL CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF P.R. |
10.60% |
201 |
INTER AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF PUERTO RICO |
2.14% |
Updated to reflect that schools with tied scores should have identical ranking positions.
The ABA, NALP and USNews should NOT count these funded programs as LT FT JD jobs.
It's fine to offer these fellowships - these experiences might well lead to jobs -- but we should not conflate these fellowships to real LT FT JD jobs.
GW and W&M were gaming the system to offer such low dollar fellowships to such a large percentage of their classes.
Posted by: Kevin Outterson | April 12, 2013 at 01:20 PM
As the Anon from above, I agree that some of those fellowships may be OK to offer. However, every fellowship funded by a law school represents money that could be otherwise committed to reducing tuition, or some other purpose, and therefore the fellowships should only be offered when they present a reasonably strong likelihood of permanent employment, and not because they allow law schools to game the employment statistics system. However, I suspect that if law school-funded employment were expressly excluded from employment statistics most of those fellowships would likely dry up.
Posted by: Anon | April 12, 2013 at 01:52 PM
And, of course, as I've pointed out before, although they may be a reasonable use of a particular law student's tuition at a particular school if they offer a very strong chance of employment, they should not be regarded as a good thing for law students in general, because they are merely an exchange of employment between law schools rather than a means of creating true employment. Including them in employment statistics merely incentivizes law schools to engage in statistics manipulation. Rather, they should be discouraged, as they present the possibility of displacing real employment with law school-subsidized interns and they result in an unnecessary additional use of law student tuition when considered over the law school population as a whole.
Posted by: Anon | April 12, 2013 at 07:46 PM