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September 29, 2011


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Richard Gershon

How can law schools engage in this behavior, and then presume to teach their students how to be ethical lawyers?

Michael Risch

Those teaching the students are rarely those reporting the numbers...and I sadly speak from experience.

Retired to teach

This isn't about ethics, it's about honesty and integrity. One doesn't teach honesty and integrity to law students. By then it is way too late; they either come to law school as honest folk or they don't. All we can do as teachers is teach them the penalties for dishonest conduct in hopes of deterring some from dishonesty. That's why my securities regulation classes are told not once, not twice, but at least thrice that lawyers are among the favorite targets of SEC and DOJ enforcers of insider trading rules - and unfortunately the SEC and DOJ never lack lawyers to target.


Isn't this a Rule 8.4 violation?

And these numbers aren't minor, a 165 vs. 166, if reported for US News purposes will probably have an impact, no?

Bob Strassfeld

The NCAA penalizes schools that cheat. While penalties are usually lighter, they can ban them from competition for some period of time. Should schools that cheat be banned from the US News ranking for a year?

SMU Grad (Class of '98)

"While penalties are usually lighter, they can ban them from competition for some period of time."

Yes, yes they can.

Bill Turnier

Viewed from another perspective, this shows the absurdity of professional schools taking seriously what could reasonably be called arbitrary rankings by a defunct magazine. It is worth noting that for several years now, the press have been reporting on the massaged nature of the employment data reported by a number of schools. To date that has gained no traction. And then there is the most uncomfortable inconsistency of law schools operating as if nothing had changed when large portions of their grads cannot obtain a job or can only obtain one that will not allow the grads to pay off student loans for decades. What is more deceptive, Illinois' inaccurate data or massive silence on job prospects for new students?


Why is it that the names of the bad actors are not reported? Maybe the bad actors at Illinois are not yet known, but surely those at Villanova are. Michael Risch, help us not hire your trash.

Michael Risch

"Michael Risch, help us not hire your trash."

Wow, a lot of burden on this poor untenured prof's shoulders. I have no idea what the school policy is on revealing who was involved, so I am staying out of it. While I understand the concerns of other schools, there are many folks much higher up on the food chain here than I am, and I leave it to them to spread whatever word there is to be spread.

There is an argument that revealing names will help protect anyone else who left the school in the last year not be tainted, but that is also out of my pay grade.

That said, the ABA report pretty clearly points fingers, and it shouldn't be too hard to figure out who was involved. Heck, it didn't take very long to reveal the scamprofblogger, and there wasn't even an official report on him.

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