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November 16, 2017

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anon

Is Golden Gate immune from the rules?

anon

Here's the reason I wonder the reason that you go after all these law schools, but never, ever, Golden Gate:

From 2016 509: Any errors inadvertent

Bar Pass

Bar Passage Rates (February and July 2013) -15.42
Bar Passage Rates (February and July 2014) -20.91
Bar Passage Rates (February and July 2015) -24.81

Attrition

1st year 39.3%
2nd year 5.3%

LSAT

25 Percentile LSAT Full Time 146 Part Time 144

Tuition

Full-Time Resident $ 48,500 Non Resident $ 48,500

David Frakt

Dear Anon,

It is not a question of me "going after these law schools". I am primarily reporting what the ABA has done. And I have discussed Golden Gate's horrible bar pass statistics and their predatory admission practices. See. e.g. http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2016/12/some-thoughts-on-the-california-bar-exam-.html (in the comments). The ABA should send Golden Gate a letter of non-compliance very similar to that which it has sent recently to Thomas Jefferson, Florida Coastal, Appalachian and John Marshall (Atlanta).

Kyle McEntee

anon, do you think David is part of a conspiracy to protect Golden Gate from criticism?

PaulB

Before the corpse of Valpo Law School goes cold, we should at least acknowledge that the school belatedly recognized that their admissions standards were too lenient. They raised them significantly only to learn that they were incapable of getting enough students. Not unlike Whittier.

If only the ABA would consider setting minimum LSAT (or their GRE equivalent) numbers for 25 and 50th percentiles for all accredited schools.

anon

Kyle

No, I don't. And he has denied that he represents that law school in any way, or any of the faculty there. On the record, so to speak.

Nevertheless, it is curious. Selective outrage is always a warning sign of something, I think.

Instead of answering a question with a question, how about a transparent answer? DF attacks certain schools with a vengeance. But, Golden Gate is never included in the list, even when he is attacking WHittier and Thomas Jefferson (i.e., California law schools).

One could say that he was only attacking those law schools attacked by others. But, standards are standards.

Go ahead, say it. Golden Gate Law is just so much better than those other schools, it isn't even worthy of mentioning it!

anon

"The ABA should send Golden Gate a letter of non-compliance very similar to that which it has sent recently to Thomas Jefferson, Florida Coastal, Appalachian and John Marshall (Atlanta)."

Yes. But, what filter do you apply in your selection of the law schools to target? You write column after column recommending action against certain law schools, but never, unless goaded into it, mention this school, and then, only in the comments in response to another comment asking WHY?

Would you give any consideration to a RELATIVELY RECENT PRIOR PROBATION that apparently had only a short term effect?

If so, what inferences would you draw from that sort of circumstance? Any inference at all?

anon 2

What do you have against Golden Gate? You seem pretty zealous yourself.

David Frakt

anon -

I primarily write about law schools that are giving other law schools a bad name: schools that are taking advantage of people by admitting students with extremely poor prospects for success, and schools with very poor bar pass statistics and job placement outcomes. I believe Golden Gate to be one of those schools and I have been highly critical of Golden Gate. What else would you like me to say? Is there another school you believe that I should be looking at? And why do you care what I think? If you think that I have any direct or inside influence with the ABA, I am flattered, but you would be mistaken. I have never spoken to a single person at the ABA about anything. They certainly have never solicited my opinion.

David Frakt

PaulB - If you look at the incoming student credentials at the schools where the ABA has said that the law schools were violating Standard 510 on Admissions over the last couple of years, a very clear pattern emerges of what the ABA considers to be acceptable in terms of LSAT scores. There is no real mystery. I agree that Valpo should be given credit for admitting the error of their ways and raising standards back to reasonable levels, even though it meant that they could not stay in business.

anon

anon 2

If you know the history of this school, and just read the stats above, the question is: do you have any belief in the ABA standards, weak as those standards are? Or, do just think those standards, weak as those standards are, should be ignored for certain law schools?

The resort to questioning the motives and integrity of anyone who dares to simply ask these questions speaks volumes about your "position" ... which appears to be "leave Golden Gate alone"!!!!

anon 2

Nope, not my position. I was just wondering what they did to you.

anon

What "they have done" is demonstrated by the record.

Can't you figure out "what they have done"?

Any other questions, anon 2?

Deep State Special Legal Counsel

Quit attacking and slandering these schools. A lot of good attorneys, judges and other professionals matriculated from that list. Lots of good, hardworking staff, janitors, professors, typists work for these schools. When my comments don't fit your narrative, you remove them. Nice job. I guess you want a SAFE SPACE?

Law Clerk

In response to this excerpt: "I expect the ABA to take action against other predatory schools in the near future." Any "opportunity" school is a predatory school. There are so many others. Although there are good people working for them, it is still wrong to keep such schools open through student debt. It is terrible that so many students are saddled with debt that they can never repay and that cannot be discharged. Is it fair to sustain the underbelly of the law school industry on the futures of students who borrow beyond their means for a degree that is practically worthless? The ABA never should have accredited schools like this. We have enough reputable law schools -- and too many law graduates for the available positions. Who will monitor the ABA?

David Frakt

Law clerk,
I am not sure I agree with the idea that all "opportunity" schools are predatory. In many large cities there are schools which offer part-time programs for working people of modest, but real aptitude. But some formerly legitimate opportunity schools have lowered their standards to the point that they are now predatory, and other predatory schools have adopted the label opportunity school as a way of shielding what they are really doing. These schools frequently also use diversity as an excuse to engage in predatory practices.

Law Clerk

David,

I do agree with most of this response, with a few exceptions. First, I think that most "opportunity" schools are also for-profit schools; any such school is predatory, and, in my opinion, should not exist. Second, any law school that offers a part-time program is not doing it for mercenary reasons; rather, they're tapping into another market for funding. Finally, the lowering of standards is for financial gain, and I completely agree with the last sentence. To add to this, and not to do so in support of any stereotypes about the aptitude of diverse students, I also think that many schools now offer "academic support" to all students as a way to keep them in school (and paying tuition). Years ago, there was no such thing.

concerned_citizen

David, I don't know what you think you're doing here, singling out The Number Two Ranked Law School!

I mean, don't you know how resplendent their library is? MASSIVE square footage in that law library.

concerned_citizen

Law clerk on 20-Nov asks, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Good question.

I haven't bothered to look up the membership of then controlling ABA committees in a few years, but at one point such membership provided a nice real-life example of regulatory capture.

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