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January 22, 2014

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terry malloy

so. . . people who can fog a mirror will pay full freight while those who would have paid full freight three years ago get a free ride.

It's an expensive time to be dumb.

anon

All this seems sort of desperate. Is teh alternative closing the doors?
If law schools can survive on such drastically reduced income, what does that say about the level of tuition charged to date?

Observer

Yeah, it seems that the continuation of this business model is dependent on a significant quantity of people with poor GPAs/LSATs willing to pay full tuition while everyone else is getting massive discounts from sticker price.

Whether the supply of people willing to pay full tuition will be maintained under such conditions remains to be seen.

BoredJD

Perhaps the money used to buy good numbers with full-tuition scholarships will come from the other various forms of discounting, i.e. the $5,000 or $10,000 a year teaser scholarships that don't do much to cut into a 40K or 50K/year tuition bill. Hopefully law schools are not moving even more towards a system where a small group of savvy haves are subsidized by a much larger group of unsavvy or unsophisticated have-nots.

anon`

Bored JD: It is stated that Villanova is buying "good" numbers with three years of full, free tuition. The "future" is here. The question is how can Villanova survive in light of this dramatic fall in revenue. Was it previously charging to obtain an obsence profit, or will it now lose money fast?

anon

I would add that GPA is sort of contingent on the school and other factors that account for vast differences in the value of the validator.
THe LSAT is what it is. I suspect that this policy will have an impact totally contrary to the supposed beliefs and goals of most of the faculty.

MacK

This is an outrun the bear strategy - the bear being the endowment running out or parent college refusing to subsidize any more losses. There are too many law schools in PA - and Villanova is betting that the poorer schools go bust first.

A hint to prospective students - where are you if the school closes after 2 years - your loans may cancel, but you are not going to get the deal at another school. If a 157 LSAT has the ability, I'd check the schools financial stability first.

By the way PA may be over law schooled, but nothing like Florida. It will be ground zero for the implosion to come....

Cent Rieker

The article was silent on whether there were any contingencies to maintain the scholarship, as there often is- although I have witnessed negotiating from a former paralegal of mine who had a 178... The respective law schools were pestering like diamond dealers on 47th Street. Some offered guaranteed scholarships without any grade contingency and others scoffed and only were willing to provide a grade/rank conditional one. If Villanova is shelling out scholarship money for such a weak LSAT score, then maybe they're desperate enough to lock that scholiy in.

MacK

This interesting also in the context of another thread - or series of threads - what will be the application number and yield/enrollment come summer 2014. Recruitment/applications/admissions/shameless-touts&shills have a better sense of the market than anyone regularly posting here. If to use the salesman/marketers crude colloquialism they are having to "drop their trousers" this far and this early in the process, things must be really dire in PA at least.

PaulB

I thought it was the job of attorneys to read the fine print. What Villanova is offering is 50 full tuition scholarships, up from the previous 25. Having a 3.6/157 only enables you to apply for this magical award. Since 157 was the median for the school last year, one can safely assume that lots and lots of folks interested in going to school in Philly will then apply to Villanova and that those who actually get the scholarship will have significantly higher numbers.

Villanova has 162 students entering this year and had 220 enter in 2012 according to the TLS spreadsheet. The logical conclusion is that by offering an additional 25 full schollys that can be potentially be claimed by those with unremarkable numbers, they will in fact get enough additional applicants who will choose to come at a price less than sticker but much higher than free.

It should, however, be noted that Villanova has joined the ranks of law schools that promise not to raise tuition during second and third year.

MacK

PaulB

So they are offering 1/3 of the equivalent of last year's incoming class a 3 year full ride scholarship - if numbers are down by 15% more than 1/3. The question of course is yield - how many 157 LSATs will enroll when informed they are not one of the lucky 50? It is quite possible that the answer is none or nearly none ... Who wants to be in a room where 1/3 of the class IX looking at you and thinking, transparently "sucker" - and remember like cars no one pays retail

MacK

IX - wow ipad autocorrect I'd so creative

PaulB

MacK,

I don't think those hoping for a full scholarship will take sticker, but once they've applied and have been offered a partial grant, they may well consider it. As they say in the car business you can't sell them until you get them on the lot. You're right that this approach smacks a bit of desperation, but these are desperate times.

Crazy Eddie

Crazy Danny's law school. Where our prices are so low they're insane!

BoredJD

The school's website says that "good academic standing" will be required to maintain the scholarship.

http://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/law/admissions/finaid/scholarships/InnovationScholars.html

anon

As for Florida being saturated, and Philly, what of New York, California?

MacK

anon

Overall, Florida is probably the most over law schooled, followed by California. Pennsylvania and Philadelphia in particular is also over-law schooled. Other states with way too many schools are Alabama, Illinois, Indiana, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, Tennessee, Washington DC, Virginia and probably Texas.

And by the way, with about 110 universities offering qualifying law degrees (you can go to legal training with them) - how about the UK?

MacK

and who can forget Massachusetts and Boston with 9 schools - most in the Boston metro area.

quality

What will this do to the perceived value of degrees from fee or cheap schools by employers?

Observation

When law schools raise tuition, they are scammers and profiteers. When they increase scholarships and/or cut tuition, they are hucksters and used car salesmen. Whoever said that internet commentary is unreasonable?

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